Oh brother oh brother oh brother, what's going on everyone? What's up, What's up, what's up? I appreciate you joining me on this Saturday evening and we're doing something a little bit different. We're about to listen to a very politically charged debate between Glenn Greenwald Alex Jones Destiny uh, some left leaning Brothers on Twitter and I guess to tee this up I Wanted to listen to it because obviously we're in an election year and I'm a greedy capitalist so I need to track with going on in the world of politics to know how the economy might or might not be impacted and obviously in the upcoming election. January 6th is an important event because one of the people trying to be president Donald J Trump is potentially getting kicked off various ballots and this is a particular thing that I have not zero knowledge on but pretty close to zero knowledge on. Obviously I know about the event I went I know like what went down and everything when people like storm the capital and the election blah blah blah but I don't know any of like the actual facts like how did things legally play out who's impr prison, who's not in prison so I feel like I just need to become more of an informed person.

So I'm hoping that this could teach me something. so this from my end is not a point of me saying oh, who's right, who's wrong I'm just not that informed myself and I prefer to rather be more informed. so I know what is really kind of going on. Uh, obviously my knowledge is very superficial of just I remember the day I remember the craziest I remember watching the videos Um, but I don't really know any of the pure legal political developments that have happened afterwards.

Uh, so that's what I want to do. and I figure if I'm here learning something, maybe you'd want to be here learning something as well. So just to kind of tee this up a little bit, this on January 6th is a debate about what happened on January 6th a couple years ago. There are three people who are very right leading.

There are three people who are very left leing and they're going to go at it. Um, obviously coming into this, you guys might have thoughts and opinions of who's right, who's wrong, You might have thoughts and opinion of who's a better debater, who's not a better debater. Uh, and in all reality, hey, you're entitled to it I just really don't have any in myself. All six of the people speaking I've heard of in the past, but it's not like I follow any of them religiously.

They just kind of pop up in the cultural internet Zeitgeist type of a thing. so it's going to be starting very very soon. Uh, if you guys have any add-ons of your own, feel free to comment it away cuz I'm during this if something pops up and I'm a bit confused I might be Googling it to search it for me. This is just a very very uh I guess big informative type of opportunity.

Now it might be a bust and they might just end up all screaming at each other and I might learn nothing or I might actually be able to learn something. Sometimes you just got to take a big swing. Um I'm a master debator I knew someone would be throwing that out there, but let's see how it goes. Uh, so we're switching it up and we're just going to see how this Saturday kind of plays out.

All right. Let me get. Political violence is ever acceptable in the United States Political system? Never never never. It has no place in a democracy.

none. Give them the kind of Pride and boldness that they need to take back our country. So let's start marching and I salute you all USA USA USA That's what happens when election lies are pushed through the media. Who has the ultimate authority to deploy the National Guard The ultimate Authority rests with Trump He saw people saying hang Mike Pence He was instigating violence against Mike Pence The US Department of Home Security had already declared that the greatest threat to the US Homeland was not Isis or Al-Qaeda but instead domestic extremists.

far right extremist to be exact. So let's walk down Pennsylvania com quickly. Okay, cool, yeah, keep commenting like a lot. so I could size this up properly.

All right that chats, gentlemen. Welcome to the second Zero Hedge debate. It is an honor and a privilege to be asked to moderate this debate. I'm Ian Crossin I'm going to be moderating tonight and the debate tonight is going to be about January 6 2021 Some things happened on that day and we're going to be talking about them from start to finish as best as possible.

We have an incredible panel of human beings that I'm going to be introducing shortly. but before I do I want to talk a little bit about Zeroh Hedge who's putting on the debate? Zero Hedge was a company found in 2009. It's a Libertarian fiercely independent and counterculture, uh news organization. They are also uh, they have on their website they have a premium service that I want to talk about before we get started.

you can go to Zerohedge.com and uh, sign up for the premium service Buy bypassing the advertisements to get uh exclusive Financial economic and geopolitical knowledge and data. It's uh, highly articulate information. It's a great, really great organization and it also gives you access to the secret Twitter feed or the X feed formerly known as Twitter what's up Elon in case you're listening uh with with uh Market moving Financial Advice: real-time updates. It's a great service so you can go to Zerohedge.com sign up for the premium service and get started there.

and um, from there we're going to, we're going to jump into it I Want to introduce our panel of incredible people? as I said earlier and I'm going to start from the end and give you guys a chance to introduce yourselves. We have Ed Kenin yeah, how's it going I'm Edstein, you know me on X at Ed Cren also the twin brother of Brian thanks for pointing out that it's cren Stein not cren Stein Well, it can actually be either. you can do cren Stein Orenstein and I really don't care what you use so it's Frankenstein not Stein I'm Frankenstein but let's that was Alex Jones If you didn't know, we also have Brian Ken Stein Hey and uh, it's great to be here here. uh I'm Brian Cren Stein known as cren Stein on X uh um Ed's slightly better looking and more intelligent twin brother.

they are and modest as well. probably the most modest of the cren. Stein uh next to next to Brian we have um Steven Bonnell known as Destiny what's happening man, hey, what's up You know me on YouTube at Destiny my real life name is Stephen and I scream and shout at people on the internet for a living next to this dude we got Alex Jones uh Alex explain yourself I don't think I' probably needed much of an introduction. Uh, but I mean I was there on January 6 and I I I saw what happened and so uh, it's a very important discussion we're about to have tonight.

I'm glad everybody came. We need to have more of this not just left and right, but just just different groups of people debating. And discussing I'm really glad that uh Zero Hedge and and and their great Subscription Service People supporting it is financing this and so you're going to see a lot more of this with people supporting Zero Hedge uh oh X is having some tech issues and so I'm I'm just honored to be here with you guys. uh in Austin Texas Yeah absolutely Shout out to Zeroedge! Great company, great people too.

Really great people involved with the company. and to your left my right Darren Bey What's happening man! great to be here! Thank you I'm I Called Revolver. News which is reported extensively on January 6 and you can also see me. what's this guy story does anyone? JB and you're a Trump adviser and speech writer? yes and and a former professor and you helped quarterback a lot of uh the groundbreaking stuff that uh Tucker Carlson put up.

Indeed! So I'll s your prizes in you Thank you and we also have coming in remote live Glenn Greenwald from your studio in Brazil What's happening Glenn Hey everybody Glenn Greenwald I'm a journalist I'm uh the host of System update on Rumble I had planned to be there in person. A little logistical problems intervened and I wish I could be. but I'm really looking forward to participating and I just want to Echo Alex I think what Zero Hedge is doing is so important. Organizing these kind of kind of subna structured debates among people who obviously disagree pretty strongly on things and yet nonetheless can have what I hope will be a civil and spirited debate.

What I expect it will be. So I'm really looking forward to it and I appreciate being asked. yes, that is My job is to make sure that it maintains civility, structure, organization, and uh, that we don't talk over each other, that we end up listening to each other. The real value of humanity.

One of the most powerful tools we have is communication. So I think tonight's going to be an exemplary um, example of that. Let's let's go. let's go.

let's go for this. The first question I got for you guys and this is really for the entire panel and anyone that wants to start it off. maybe we can start with you Ed since just CU you're on the end and we can move around is January 6 2021 Was it an Insurrection and before you answer before you answer I want to read this. This is um this is actually what the it's called 18 Us code 2383 Rebellion or Insurrection yeah let me do an overhead shot.

This is right out of Corell law here yo X is having some problems. Excellent all right. I'm gonna start reading this. Hello X x must not be why it's only 7,000 or two I'm surprised X can't handle this load right now like and it was also kind of pitch like people knew this was coming.

uhoh SpaghettiOs uh oh I'm going to see if I can find a different link I Guess what? An insurrection? I'm looking for it on Zero Hedge's actual website. Uhoh X is having some problems. If anyone don't think that has a higher quality link, let me know. but we'll try to find one off.

Insurrection When I say Insurrection I I don't mean everybody there was partaking in Insurrection There were people who were peaceful people who the people who walked into the capital did nothing. I Don't think that they were insurrectionists I think they violated the law but I don't think they were partaking Insurrection I do think the proud boys were partaking in Insurrection I Think you could say Donald Trump incited the Insurrection I do Destiny What do you think man? uh, I would say the plot from start to finish is quite obviously an Insurrection. The only way to get around that is to either justify an Insurrection which is what most conservatives do they don't realize it or to deny that an Insurrection could ever happen. or or if you're not aware of all the facts of what happened I Think that Donald Trump and his cronies had a very coherent plan that they tried to enact from start to finish, starting with false claims of voter fraud leading to false slates of electors that filed themselves as state electors under perjury which is what they did up to the violence that happened on the day of the you um, on the day of the certification of the vote where Donald Trump and his friends contined to try to delay the peaceful transfer of power by contravening the certification of the El to college vote and what? I I Want to make sure that we don't force this into like what they want to call a debate debate where you got to be, wait to called on, be called on or anything.

So if any of you guys Glenn you as well man, if any of you guys want to jump in Yeah, that two of them just went I want Glenn to go but I I just want to say something here. I was there and I was investigated and subpoenaed by the Justice Department in at least five criminal investigations and I was forced to testify in front of the Jan 6 committee which they've now been destroying their records because the records show the opposite of what they said Trump and all of us had a stage rented by the Supreme Court he was supposed to have another rally there. we showed up before Trum finished his speech, people were getting tear gassed and hit by bullets and there were a bunch of provocateur leading an attack against the police and they broke through. and then this million plus people then got blamed as insurrectionist and Biden gave a big speech yesterday saying they're all terrorists So but by but by that extension Cala Harris as the VP candidate was bailing people out of jail that burned down police stations and firebombed federal buildings.

So so and and the idea of Biden speech yesterday making his whole campaign about January 6 saying political violence is never good, the Democrats are the ones that call for political violence. So I was there with a bullhorn I can only reach 100 yards out when the tear gas was hitting me saying don't go in, don't fight the police This is a setup and we have hundreds of videos and so regardless of what the left tries to do, they're all out there of people taking off their antifa stuff and putting on the the the uh Trump Garb and and the police fake arresting people attacking them and then high-fiving them. I mean this has all come out in the new footage and it's all get they fake arresting them. how were they fake? They would grab them and arrest them and then drag them in, then high five.

you know, take the handcuffs off and high five them. those videos What people are Tak everything I say they're going to put it on X and show what I said. That's what we dominate what I'm getting at. Let me just let me tell you this what I'm getting in here is they now admit hundreds of federal officers were there.

So when Trump started his speech, this whole thing began with Ray up saying go into the capital he told the Jan 6 committee yeah, it's true, it's in his text messages. He told family I orchestrated it. So Under Pressure they finally adapted him but only recommend six months. So a few hundred people got manipulated into fighting the police that they were LED and driven by provocators and other groups.

they were others. Then they open the doors and the police wave them in in hundreds of videos. They walk between the Velvet ropes and then they indict over a thousand people that just walked through velvet ropes and then now we're told in the National Security directive of President Biden the number one threat is the American people and he had a declaration of war yesterday against all Trump supporters and says to protect democracy we're not going to let you vote for Trump So as Stalin said I care not who cast the votes I care who counts them well Biden doesn't care who cast the votes, he cares who's allowed on the ballot so we've already won. No one's buying this.

and and and when this happened three years ago, the The Wall Street Journal had a print of retraction but they said I was there as a coward telling people to attack. Well no, they wouldn't let me put the video on. Twitter I was saying don't go in but the truth is it's coming out and and so so that's the bottom line here. and and this attempt by Biden to cast the American people as the enemy in all these movies about martial law and Civil War yo X come on, this is not a good look for them.

I mean they can't handle even 9,000 on a live view? like come on, come on, it's a good Freeze Frame Though solid Freeze Frame Maybe they'll be able to fix it or on the flip side, maybe freaking not. This is embarrassing. Let me I mean I thought there would be an independent one on Zero Hedge but are you guys finding a better one? let me try reloading the page. Uh, let me know if you guys that seemed to work and the thing I said was I think the South was wrong and then you just said you just said that I support what the South did no I didn't say you supported that I said you said that they weren't engaged in Insurrection You think the Confederate States Insurrection was that because there were rebellions during Reconstruction at the end of the Civil War and they were saying if you lead an uprising against the northern occupation of the South, you're precluded from running from office because they were worried about Southerners getting off us again like je and no so no I do not support the Civil War or slavery and I'm not a quote Confederate My question is was it an Insurrection yes or no If you were no, no, no, no, no.

The law yes I I think that it was a Civil War and you could say an Insurrection Okay, so as an Insurrection did anybody get charged with Insurrection Rebellion What I'm saying is Viola statute Did anybody no I'm asking you just said it was Insurrection Did anybody get charged with violating the Insurrection and Rebellion statute? Yes people. did you have no Because there was no statute there. That's my point. You don't need, you don't need you don't need to violate that Statute in order to be partaking in Insurrection because the Civil War was an Insurrection and nobody got charged with violating list.

What? I'm that's my point. Alex You're changing subject. Even the Democratic party lawyers on CNN say you have to be convicted under the 14th Amendment of this before you can be you can't you can't Just you don't get convicted under the 14th Amendment You get convicted under 23. Well, let's let's slow down a little.

Let's slow down a little. A congressional resolution to give Awards to Capital Police is not a conviction of Donald Trump to remove him from the ballot. He's been indicted for saying they stole an election, so now they want to take him out the ballot so you can't vote for him which is pure stealing of an election This is Not he's he's the yanky Yankee he's not somebody in Georgia He's not Robert E Lee This has nothing. Also, a quick check on the 14th Amendment It doesn't require a conviction under Section You can literally put it on the text on the screen.

there's no Shall does not say needs to be convicted I Guess we need to define the difference Alex Alex Alex One second, one second. I We need to define the difference between the Casual term Insurrection and the legal definition of insurrection. Yes, well, there's another thing we need to talk. the Nik Do not go that out.

There's the Casual term. There's the emology of the term Insurrection which simply suggests a rising up. So by that definition, that could. Encompass A wide range of things.

Black lives matter, wait wait wait wait. So there's there's a rising up. Then there's the legal definition. But we have politically weaponized court systems, so that's not even I Think a proper standard I Think the proper standard is the sweep of a proper historical perspective.

Does does the event of January 6 compare to the antecedent that we've been discussing the civil War So if the question is oh, is Civil War and Insurrection my question is: is the scope and scale of the event of January 6 comparable to the Civil War Because Joe Biden has directly made this comparison, which I think is flatly ridiculous and that comparison has to be valid in order for these ridiculous Section Three arguments to have any force or legitimacy. and I think any lie on it face. it's a lie I'm G Shut up. It's a lie on its face.

They say it's bigger than Pearl Harbor in 911 that is Bullit Okay, so so so here let me let me finish what My point Yeah, do that and then I want to go to Glenn for a second. My point is that two things. the Civil War was an Insurrection I Think It's hard to argue that nobody got charged with a crime of VI violating the Insurrection Rebellion Statute 2383. What about 19? What about 1992? The LA Riots George Herbert Walker Bush He invoked the Insurrection Act 12,000 people were arrested, 63 people were killed, hundred hundreds were injured.

Was that an Insurrection It's a declaration of Federal law. Was it an Insurrection Because nobody there was charged with violating nobody there. Nobody there was charged with violating Section 2383, the Insurrection and Rebellion statute. But we still consider that an Ins I mean by by that yard stick Camala Harris bailing out people that firebomb Federal buildings Glen Glenn Talk to me, you have something to say.

Yeah, I Actually think what Destiny and what Ed are saying are very important. Uh, first of all, I was going to say that I think one of the problems with how these things are debated is that a lot of people these days have very binary prisms for understanding things. A lot of that comes from YouTube debate where you have to declare yourself on one side of the other. so Destiny said oh, everybody either hates this Inter Insurrection thinks it's an Insurrection or they deny it happens or they think it's good and there's so much Middle Ground Namely, that for me, this was a political protest that spilled over into a riot where a small minority of the people engage in violence I don't think we want to urge that to happen.

We don't want to defend that I Consider that lamentable, but the fact that it's laughable to call this an Insurrection is actually demonstrated by the examples that they're using. This was a three-hour Riot that was extremely easily subdued. It doesn't remotely compare to any prior insurrections, let alone to the Civil War. The only people who were killed on January 6 were four people, all four of whom were Trump supporters, two of whom dropped out of a heart attack and one from a speed overdose because these were not exactly a well-trained militia.

And when Jack Smith went to charge Donald Trump with multiple crimes, he had a lot of options to charge him with. and he charged him with a lot of crimes, including very dubious ones he did not charge him with in citing an Insurrection for reasons that I think we ought to ask ourselves why, but the the fact that this is such a minor event in history is demonstrated by the fact that the media who needed this to be a major event immediately started lying about what happened, saying that Brian Snik was murdered when he had his head bashed in through a fire with a fire extinguisher only for to learn that actually he called his mother that night. He was fine. He died the next day of what the coroner said were natural causes because the media knew that if you can't say that even one person supposedly perpetrating the Insurrection killed anybody pulled out a gun, let alone discharge the weapon.

All of which is true. It's a joke to call this an Insurrection At best. it's a riot and that's the reason why Trump hasn't been charged with an Insurrection. The only time he ever commented on January 6 about whether he thought there should be violence or not was when he said the following: he said I know that everyone, uh oh here will will soon be marching over to the capital building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.

He urged them to be peaceful in how they went there to the extent there was violence. I Think you can make the argument that the FBI informant that even the New York Times admits were there were the ones that urged it. But even if the people who were there were the ones responsible at best, this is a riot. You could so easily make the case that the 2020 riots were a far greater insurrectionary threat than anything that happened on January 6 That's perfectly said.

I I would ask the I would ask the left over here I know I know Ian's asked the questions I mean I don't know did you guys see Biden speech I mean it was an hour long that no one there was good. They were all there. a million over a million people I was there and then we March down there to have another rally and then I see this hell this terrible thing happening. It was medeval and then and then and then Biden's saying they're all bad and we can't let you vote for Trump I mean it's I mean come on man.

we have a clip from this from Biden's speech I want to play and then let's get back to you Destiny you had something to say but if you guys have this this, uh, it's clip number four. they were insurrectionists not Patriots They weren't there to uphold the Constitution they were there to destroy the Constitution Trump won't do what an American president must do. He refuses to denounce political violence. so hear me clearly.

I'll say what Donald Trump Want Political violence is never ever acceptable in the United States political system. Never never never never look he the Democrats It has no place in the Democracy none. It can't be pro- insurrectionist and pro-american know Trump and his Magga supporters. not only Embrace political violence, but they laugh about it.

The Insurrection is the open border. So the Insurrection was not just the three hour Riot that happened to the White House afterwards. I Think that's the least charitable reading of everything that happened. and that's not.

If you read any of the charges that either Jack Smith or the Georg RICO case has edged against Trump are saying that in fact, not much of the focus is on theour R All that, let Stepen finish his thought first. So not much of those indictments are actually focusing on the three R itself. The unprecedented act that there is no answer for that Kamla Harris or Joe Biden or Hillary Clinton have not engaged in is using knowingly false election claims for months to try to pressure State electors to change their vote. and then when they wouldn't do that, beg them to elect different electors.

and then when they wouldn't do that, create a plot to create fate fake electors. and then when Pence wouldn't accept that, try to capitalize on that final three-hour riot at the capital building to also make phone calls and tell people to decertify their Vote or to switch their ele Obama had alterate electors JFK Story was completely I Can explain that if you want yeah, please do yeah. So so in 19, what was it? 1960? So 1960 JFK And there was a dispute because the there was a recount I think JFK ended up winning by like 150 votes at the time at the time each state decided or the state decided to certify two sets of certif decided to choose two two different slates of electors depending on how it went and but they were certified by middle recount they were in the middle of a Rec Trump Tred to get a certified none was certified yet neither state was what happened with Trump Was that Trump tried to get the states to certify a second slate of electors based off of conspiracy theory crap that elction stolen hold hold on they did. He took it to court2 cases 30 cases were looked at on Merit So are they taking the ballot Now that's a separate.

that's a is the not purest form of election theft is taking some off the Al Let's get back to the 196 really fast. So what happened was that they did a recount and Kennedy ended up winning by I think 150 votes and they chose the Kennedy electors. They certified the Kennedy electors and Kennedy ended up winning that state. That's what Trump said did what Trump did was Trump tried to get the states to certify alternate slate of electors.

they refused because the court said there's no no they there and then when that didn't go through Trump decided to get his own slate of electors above the states that were not certified and tried to use that to force Mike Pence to say that Joe Biden didn't win these electoral votes I just need to interject really quickly. So if we want to be precise in terms of the scope of the debate, I think it's about January 6 and so the leadup to it might be relevant to some of the criminal indictments, but it's technically speaking out six discussion if we're if we're going to bring it into the discussion I think there's an operative word there, Um, knowingly. I And that's operative within the context of the charging documents. but the idea that Trump thought that he lost the election and he was knowingly lying and knowingly engaging.

No, he believes I guarantee it whether you believe it or not. Trump believes that the election was stolen and he was using the legal recourses available to him at the advice of his legal advisers. That is not true. Most of his legal advisers, most of his, most of his legal advisers said most of his legal advisers said that this idea was.

well, no, but he had legal advisors who were telling him if you search hard enough if you search hard enough anybody to validate an opinion. but what you've just done is what I opened with which is saying he thought election was stolen. Therefore, he was justified to engage in Insurrection is it right to take the since you don't want January 6 that's the Supreme Court to decide. That's for the Supreme Court Ask question That's I'm telling you, that's for the Supreme Court to decide according to according to section three of the 14th.

Amendment it's sanction countries that take people off the ballot. What? that's That's not even remotely relevant dude. So you you know the United States Here we we have. if we do want Insurrection youd know it.

Bring for things like circumventing the vote, like asking the vice president for instance to unilaterally win the election. That would be something that we might vot for somebody because they make up a bunch of stuff and he's not found guilty anywhere. But you guys just parot it over again. like two.

Theit If you don't like the cons, really, then why are you saying that section three of Amendment 14 requires a conviction Alex Why did you say that section three of Amendment 14 requires a conviction? Can we put the text on stream I would love to do that actually. TT CU You keep saying all right guys, military tribunals, they would have to find you guilty Let's uh let's that's why no one was. it was bullshit. Then from Glen's Glen we'll slow down.

uh this is a great Glenn Glenn's about to drop some knowledge I'm dominating yeah talkot Glenn Glenn's Glenn's in remote from Brazil so Glenn anytime you have something to say, it's helpful for me. If I see a visual cue, maybe your hand goes up I can tell you have something you're gonna say now. But let let us let me. let me just say what happens is when you gather together to debate a particular question, you're supposed to debate that particular question.

The particular question that we were presented with is we're going to debate January 6 and whether it was an Insurrection now I Don't blame Destiny and Ed for not wanting to debate that, for wanting to debate a whole set of other issues about whether Trump acted improperly, whether he was naughty, and the things he did after the election because there is no argument to make that what happened on January 6th Rises to the level of insurrection And that's why an extremely aggressive prosecutor named Jack Smith decided not to charge Donald Trump with that crime because he knew there was no way that he could possibly bring a conviction against anybody, let alone Donald Trump who told everybody to be peaceful when going to the capital about whether or not that was actually an Insurrection Whether that, Rose to that level, and even in a colloquial sense, what we've called an Insurrection in the past is in a completely different universe. but on the issue of whether there was a real belief on the part of Donald Trump that elections were stolen I Don't understand how anybody body could doubt that aside from the fact you have to get into uh oh I'm quick on the reload. come on faster. give us a Reload faster.

The election was stolen and was the byproduct of Fraud and the president was as a result illegitimate. When I started writing about politics 2005, the idea that George Bush was the real loser of the election Al Gore one was the view of every single liberal and Democrat that I knew in 2004 there were objection claiming that Carl Ro had interfered in the Ohio vote with the debal machines and cheated to make John Krey lose and John and and George Bush win and then in 2016 Hillary Clinton and the Democrats said that Donald Trump was the illegitimate winner, that Russia had helped him and they tried to convince the Electoral College to abandon the certified results of the state. Obviously you go back to to 1960 and a lot of historians believe that election was stolen. So it's not like Donald Trump was the first person to ever wonder or believe that an election was stolen from him.

It's a very significant tradition in American political history if you know anything about politics before 2016 and if Trump believed that the election was stolen and while it's true, a lot of people in the Justice department and a lot of people in the White House told them they didn't think it was. He did have advisers and lawyers telling them telling him that they that they think there was evidence of it, then the question is over. Even on these other issues about whether or not Trump engaged in some conspiracy against the United States But the issue is is January 6 and well that's right. But I me Glenn Glenn since they one destiny and these guys haven't talked Nei as Professor be we Hillary was in videos two days ago saying Trump's going to steal this election So why are they allowed to say it? It's free speech.

You don't get indicted for it Trump didn't get indicted for that. Oh my. God They indicted him and they put it in the charging thing in Georgia saying he T the election. You're hoping people don't read the documents.

you can go read it. It's a RICO case. There's a bunch of behavior that is within a RICO case. Can I can I talk about the differences So Bush versus Gore what happened the Supreme Court rolled and Gore conceded.

He stopped saying this election was stolen. He stopped saying I won. that was Supreme Court yes Did Gore refuse to certify the vote I don't remember did he do that? The vote was certified he oh, he didn't have an alterate of electors exactly after Trump Wanted a supreme court hearing Trump wanted the same thing. 62 cases were brought before judges and you said ear or none of them were based on evidence.

Six of them were based on standing. Six out of the 6 they would even hear it I Saw You know how many of them were uh Trump appointed judges that made those Rollings 17. So six, six of six of them. let me finish here.

Six of them were based on standing. four of those that were based on standing. The judge also analyzed the merits and said there was no evidence or insufficient evidence. So only two of them and that was Texas versus Pennsylvania and goer versus Pence.

Do you know what those two cases were Tex Tex tried I agree with you B tried suing Pennsylvania Michigan Wisconsin Several other states saying that the election was stolen and the judge said no Texas can't sue these other states. Somebody in that state who was affected had to sue them. Now the other case was Gomer versus Pence. He challenged the Electoral counts Act of 1807 saying that Pence could overturn the elector the election.

He said that Pence I agree with you I think that was a wrong only two that were I agree with you on that. So what I'm saying is then if Biden's going to win so big, why can't Trump be on the ballot that's not up for Biden to decide. That's up for the supre court. Biden said he wants him off the ballot.

It doesn't matter what Biden says Biden's not the one to deci Trump lost. That's why he can't have his race car on the on the track. Uh yeah, this horse is is going to lose so it can't be in the race. Bull crap.

Who do you think has the authority then to determine the interpretation of Amendment 14 Man: I Know the State Department? Why can't you answer a single question? Why not just answer one question you keep saying I'm just asking a simple question who has the authority? Ultimately, de president has not the president. even on CNN matters of consti. Let me talk because you won't answer the questionid has not even on. CNN The legal analist say that you have to be convicted.

So Destiny you can sit there and have blue hair and be TR make all these like the moon is made of cheese I'm Destiny Every American knows you don't lose your rights. When you're not convicted, he's not been convicted. And and here's the good news. It's backfiring people.

We have the Declaration of Independence and we can vote for who we want to. No, you can't he can. Nobody stole an election. But you can't vote for who you want.

Nobody stole election. You can't vote for who you won. Nobody stole an election. But you can't vote for who you won.

We just beat this into the ground. Alex I Need you? Uh, we just crushed this one into the ground. But I Want to ask the question in a slightly different way. Was this an attempted coup? Do you guys think this was an attempted coup? Of course it was.

Obviously it was. Hunter Biden Laptop weaponization earings the censorship. There's no Russian connection. that's all RNA vaccines Take your extra I want you to take all the shots warming.

How many shots have you had none yet you want I take some no I want I I hope you take them to answer one question about any of I Want to see you take them all I think we talk about the Democrats more than on the January CRA They erases your immune system and does it prot. Yeah, yeah, let's let's let's stay back. All right guys. back to topic.

so so is it a coup? That's the question. Yeah, that's I I I think it's it can be debated attemped attemped a definit. Definitely. I Would say it's an attempted coup and a federal.

The coup is flooding the border with district judge us. District Judge David Carter actually evaluated the Trump Eastman scheme and he said we got some big news I'm not interrupting you I hours after. not that yet. uh but we we had Glenn Glenn's gonna speak after you were you sorry I'll shut up now So so so he so the federal judge us District Judge David Carter evaluated the Trump Eastman scheme.

another lawyer we can get go into later but basically he said that it was it was quote a coup in search of a legal Theory this is a federal judge so a judge we have a CIA coup Over America hey the CIA kill Kennedy judges aren't part of the CIA oh my God Are they I I Don't think so Is something. Is that a new theory of yours? No, it's not a new theory of mine. The whole thing is a big rotten but so they can find partisan. They found the Secretary State took Trump off the B cuz she had one Hearing in a YouTube video.

Are we ruled by this lady? Can we not vote for who we want? So so one one of the I guess defenses against it being a coup. Oh wait here we got Glenn Glenn's speaking. Go for it man. I Just so just about the just: I actually want to ask a question that I would love to hear everybody's answer to.

but before I do that just want to say about federal judges. This year, in the last six months, four different federal judges, a district court judge, and then an appell at court unanimously found that the Biden administr Gravely violated the First Amendment. In fact, the greatest assault on Free Speech The court said in decades maybe the history of the Judiciary by systemically pressuring big Tech to censor the internet and Purge it of all descent by threatening big tech companies using the CIA, the FBI and the CDC with punishment if they didn't censor the internet. Now, you may not agree.

but according to your standard, four different federal judges concluded that, which is infinitely worse in terms of an abridgement of Freedom or an attack on the Constitution than anything that Trump is accused of doing. But in terms that's a digital Insurrection by the Deep State digital Insurrection Can I put a real quick I Just want to be not. hold up everybody. Hold up Glenn Glenn Please finish your point and then we're gonna move onto the response question to ask is the question that you asked in is is is this a coup If you look at how other coups are perpetrated and I think a lot of this is that if you're an American and you have this very soft history, you don't know what a coup is.

You think that like what CNN tells you, a coup is a coup. Usually the way coup work is the leader of the country. Whoever is in charge the military orders the military to seize control of the levers of power. Trump was the commander-in-chief on January 6.

The military was Duty bound to obey his orders. They had a right to disobey if they were illegal. But if this were a coup, why didn't Trump order the military to seize control of the P of power and turn over the election process to him? Why didn't he order the armed factions that form the the law enforcement part of the military and the executive to do that as well? A coup. That didn't happen here because Trump wasn't trying to perpetrate a coup he wanted this the Department of Defense to seize voting machines and the Doj turned him down and told well.

the worst thing he did was try to take Biden off the ballot. Remember when Trump said Biden cannot run and have the Justice Department take Biden off the ballot. oh God that was Biden sorry I'm sorry I was having a moment. Also, Biden doesn't have the authority to do that.

he still doesn't have theth Jacki the Supreme Court that Trump has pies on that's currently 63 conservative. They're the ones who are going to make the final decision on that. Uh, just I Wanted to be known that every single time you try to talk about any of the stuff related to Trump it's so many Democrat names that comes out of people's mouths. I Don't know why people can't just engage on the facts of what happened on and in the events leading up to Direction without having to invoke every other.

Democratic Lead no name calling no his name's Dingdong Ding-dong D Whatever it is, The point is I was there. there was a million over a million people and they said police were attacking. We got there like shooting tear gas and then a bunch of feds helped break through with some idiots that got mad, had a brawl and then the cops go come on in everybody come on in and so there's all the everybody sees those videos. Now you call this the new Pearl Harbor Worse than 911 3,000 people.

Do you disagree? Let me ask you this. Do you disagree with the them claiming this was worse than Pearl Harbor or 911 I I Think it depends how you ask that question I would say I would say no it's not worse than Pearl Harbor 9 What are you basing on it? Are you basing? No No no no I get it. I get it. Trying to take people's votes away is so sacri but you're trying to take look trp unprecedented that a president of the United States would do everything with within his power to prevent the peaceful transfer of power to the next president.

He said I want you to peacefully March down to the capital uniquely horrible event the march to the capital. What was bad was him watching the riot happened for 3 hours and doing nothing. No no it took him no it was the riot was happening. He spoke for an hour and a half it started, then watched it like 30 40 minutes and then shot a video.

no you're lying. He got back to the White House he got Mark Meadows delivered a note on his desk that Ashley Babbett had been shot and he sat there sipping Diet Coke for an hour and a half. The guy that you called your leader, how many par, how many pardons did Trump do for the Patriots that got unfairly charged with crimes inal. Why didn't Donald Trump any of those people Donald Trum Seelin, you's not going to scar talk your false.

They claimed their timelines spoke for almost an hour and a half. just keep it one at a time. It's Capital when he first started speaking. so you had an hour and a half on and didn't exist I was there so you were there Alex So tell me were their weapons there? No nobody used weapons.

So are you telling yes there were weapons. No you're right. you got me. He's going to say the cops.

Yeah they they shot Babbit and they threw people off the off the off the off the balcony and they beat a woman's brains out. You're right. there were oh no, nobody shot a woman, nobody beat a woman, beat a woman on the ground. That's a fake video that got put out that was not real Actually Bab's fake folks.

Wow. I Like how you would think that years after the event we're now getting unreleased footage. like there thousand people around there's of that event from different without her getting beat by a baton. how would that take years to oh my.

God everybody on everybody on X get saying they didn't beat a woman to death. you just screwed yourself I asked you about got your ass All right yeah, got his ass. Now you're nobody. Died woman didn't get drugging by the cops and beat by batons.

Eag he wants to do little little one-ups and justum AI goes off how much emotion there is I can to you I can C down buddy. Calm down, calm down. Okay so you said I know he's a good comedic ad to this but in terms of like learning something I don't know. Like the best on the corner of 14th and Independence who had AR-15s How about oh, they use those.

they didn't use them but I oh what about the pipe bomb? I asked you a question Alex I asked you a question if people had weapons. how about the how many weapons were seized like hey got5 I got I'm raping people 75 75 of the people arrested within the capital building had weapons Let's uh, we have a couple of knives and stuff. the Naes have weapons to disarm them immediately. How about guy refit the what is he three% or or 3% does he have nuclear weapons like Biden use Russ had a handgun on the stairs of the capital.

he had a handun as as he was encouraging. that's worship Pearl Harbor As he was saying telling people to go into into the capital as he was saying he wants to drag Nancy Pelosi out of the capital and hopes her head hits every stair on the way. he said go the capital like right? Just finish my point before he cut me off, he wanted to drag Nancy Pelosi out and let her head hit every stair on the way out he he said got pooped on don't blame let finish this point cuz we're going to go to Darren really quick. He said on his way to the capital building that they're going to take the capital and put insert their own government.

yeah he out of a million people atics were there and you call it like martians invading and blowing the Earth up it like like ly Rwal said his in was Insurrection Are you saying his intention wasn't an Insurrection He's saying he's going to drag Nancy Pelosi out he's saying and he wasn't under Trump's command Trump tell trp said go peacefully yes you can finish your point and then we're going to go to Darren Can we use a mute button or something on Alex no I'm not going to be run over. So he was on his way to the capital building saying we're going to take the capital and inst our own government. He had a handgun in his handun on on the stairs of the capital saying he's going to drag Nancy py and Mitch McConnell out but you don't have a problem with that. that's not.

He didn't use a gun. What do you think Darren Because he didn't use a gun because he didn't have the opportunity. Did you shoot Nancy Pelosi or Mike Pence That's okay, he didn't have access to that. Thankfully the capital.

Thankfully the capital. About the shaman. What about the shaman. They Capital All right guy had a gun.

We martial law all the Americans are guilty you can't vote for Trump Now a guy had a gun I've been asked by Zero Hedge to moderate this debate. So that's what I'm going to do. Everyone quiet down. we're going to Darren Bey Darren moderator getting P cou What do you think about what they've been saying as well I don't think it's a coup I again I I think question of an Insurrection You can go to the emology arising up.

That could be anything if we keep the proper perspective in mind. it doesn't Elevate to anything resembling the Civil War 911 or any of the crazy comp one guy with a gun. Is it as big as a civil war? No, they didn't use the gun Darren Keep going. Um, so there's that.

The scope I think matters and that's what we're really getting at when we talk about. Insurrection The courts are politically weaponized so I wouldn't even rest. You know the legitimacy and the question on the determinations of the courts which we can see are running away with pretty wild and ridiculous theories. weaponized weaponized court system.

So there's that. And then you know these. You know sure, there are random nut jobs who are around uh DC on that day and any other day and so I don't think that's relevant to the ultimate question of whether it was a coup, whether it was an Insurrection Um, and as I said before, the stuff about Trump and the legal theory behind his you know multiple part plan, that could be an interesting discussion. It's technically outside the scope of the debate.

but again, I would reiterate. Anyone who knows Trump Anyone who knows people who knows Trump 100% certainty Trump genuinely believes that the election was stolen. He had multiple legal advisers. Many of his advisers were trying to sabotage him from day one.

Just because he was advised by one of these snakes doesn't mean that he there agrees with what they say. He agreed with the people who told him it was stolen and that he had legal recourse to address that which he implemented. There's nothing that rises to an Insurrection or coup about that either. even though that's outside of the scope of our discussion for today.

So uh Cassidy Hutchon uh said that Trump said to Mark Meadows I don't want people to know we lost. It's embarrassing. I would I I'm glad that you mentioned her because this gets to the televised sham. that was.

well she was under oath who under oath for Trump said a bunch she was she was under. she was under oath. So so the thing here is that listen. So the thing here is why is the January 6 committee destroy transcript.

The January 6 committee called near 98% of their Witnesses were Republicans it was kangaroo. These people were under oath Republicans and they testified. The people who didn't testify Within the Trump Circle there were dozens who Fifth Amendment Fifth Amendment Fifth Amendment They refuse to say a word. So you're going to tell me that the people that testified under oath are the Liars but the people that said things in the public but failed to say anything under oath are the ones that are telling I was I wasn't just there on January 6 I was in that Congressional hearing and took the fifth 98 times and not because I to hide the Fifth Amendment isn't just to incriminate yourself.

it's because they want to in a perjury trap. They would have witnesses claimed something wasn't true. You think I think attacking the capital makes us win an election? Yeah Witnesses against your your their testimony versus you can't get you in perjury. they can't Oh yeah, just ask Roger Stone that question no it doesn't happen that way.

How did Roger Stone how did perjury get Roger Stone that Roger Stone wasn't involved in Wikileaks he worked here then he he couldn't get a hold of him I knew he told the truth he didn't tell anybody I'm I'm behind the Wikileaks they said Roger Stone ran Wikileaks he never even talked to Julian Assange say he ran and wikileak no they freaking pred to in communic I think this is getting off topic. this is off topic Roger didn't lie to Congress when he said I don't know Wiki I have not interviewed aange. let's pull back to Darren I wanted to Darren's gonna finish off what you were saying about this and I think Glenn you were going to mention something after that and then I have a couple of clips that we're going to play. but Darren yeah I mean the January 6 hearings were a show trial of the sort that would make Kim Jong-il blush.

um explain it to him. they wouldn't let Republicans that they wanted under the law on the committee they wanted Jim Jordan who was actually part not allowed to have onde we pick who the people are on our jury Jim Jordan was being investigated by can't vote for Trump either they wanted they wanted a a person on the committee who was being investigated by the committee. How does that make sense? Oh my God. when you're being investigated by the Democrats you don't have a I think a lot of people watching don't understand guys was elected.

they don't have the people that are listening don't have the context so if we start rapid fire argumentation, a lot of people are going to lose interest. We need to stay focused and listen to each other. It's really important saying Focus really hard for them to win their Cas win their case. When they have to stay focused with any of their views of reality, it is possible I'm goingon to go take a piss and I'll let you tell people fairy tales.

But but what we happening is Darren is going to continue what you were saying about finishing up your thought and we're going to Glen Greenwall Yeah, well, the thought was just about this. Hutchinson and she said a lot of things I Believe she was the one who said said that Trump reached over to the steering wheel and you know told the Secret Service this or that which was a bizarre thing because the Secret Service agents in question weren't the ones that were called upon to testify under some of them. Some of them testified the same thing that Cassidy Hutchin and said no The Secret Service actually said we would love to testify and they weren't allowed to. The two Secret Service agents in question in that specific anote anecdote were not allowed to testify.

So why would they take the secondhand report from Hutchinson when they could have interrogated directly the people who have been direct Witnesses those not those two specific agents, but why not Other the car with Trump testified for the JX committee. I Don't know why they would or wouldn't testify or have particular people testify, but other people in that car did. no. the January 6 committee and that's what uh, Alex was alluding to just a second ago is one of the biggest Shams in the history of Congress Because what happened with the January 6 committee was we had a long history of 225 years of tradition in the United States Congress where whenever investigative commissions would be created within the Congress, the minority leader and the majority leader would each select the members of that committee to ensure there was fair representation by both parties.

Nancy Pelosi For the first time in the history of the United States as Speaker of the House refused to allow the repblic Republicans who were chosen for that committee by Kevin McCarthy the the at the time the Republican majority leader to minority leader to be seated on the panel and as a result the Republicans said we're going to have nothing to do with this and the only quote unquote Republicans that were chosen was Liz Cheney who ended up losing her seat by 36 points and Adam Kiner who didn't bother running again because they were so unrepresentative of the Republican party. It was a completely partisan commission and on top of that none of the videotapes that were available was made available to the public except for very deceitfully chosen Snippets by Uh, Adam Schiff and by Liz Jany and it was only within the last several months that we saw all of the video footage and what it showed makes a joke of the idea that this was a coup. you had PE people peacefully walking into the capital led by many of the police officers who encouraged them to enter peacefully which they did. The vast majority of people who were there at January 6 aren't even charged with using violence and that's what makes this whole debate such a Preposterous joke.

If you look at how coups are carried out in other countries, you could make a much better case that the Black Lives Matter Protest of 2020 was an insurrectionary movement. and the reason it matters Destiny is because if you're going to make arguments, there has to be an important test. which is do you apply the same principles you're claiming to profess and believe in to cases where it undermines your partisan Allegiance and your ideology? Not only where it helps it, that's one of the key tasks for determining the authenticity of your argument. And so if you don't think the 2020 Protest movement was an insurrectionary movement against United States government, there's no way to claim what January 6 was.

Especially since Trump could have done uh oh Glenn's getting fired up dude. why is Twitter having so many issues today so much more? A lot of Democrats Glen answer the question and I would. Yes, a lot of Democrats were angry about that. I'm asking a lot of I'm asking you would be okay personally if he refused to certify the vote I think there were two you answer the question in 2016 would you have been okay You? Because if you really believe that an election is stolen it's the Democrats claim they did then it is kind of odd to say we're just going to concede that and allow George Bush to March into Power even though we believe that he actually stole the election.

That is kind of an odd way to go. Not, it's not all that all we live in a democracy. There are appropriate forums through which you can they not battle that out in the court and they lost. Once you had cour and you lost was battling it out in the court and you lost once you lose anything.

Past that is vigilantism. vigilantism directed at the government to prevent the peaceful transfer of power to entrench your own power is an attempted coup. That's what he tried to do. Did he them to be peaceful? He told them go and about.

We're not talking about the peaceful protesters and if he wanted them to be peace as they started, he didn't. That talking the legal process of the Congressional and judicial process. He wented if if he had ordered the military or some other FBI or any of those agency the CIA to go and use violence on domestic soil in order to ignore those court rulings the way people do when they're trying to ement C, you would have a good argument. He didn't do any of that.

He invoked all of his legal rights in the Judiciary and in the Congress he lost and he walked out of at the White House on January 20th. He did not have to be dragged out. He wasn't uh, arrested by the military. which is what happens in coups.

So much of this is because you only started paying attention to politics in 2016. You only live in the United States. You have no idea about history or anything that happens in other countries. You have no idea what a coup is.

This is a coup. Glen. You bring that up. You're trying to use Hawaii as an example for something that was comparable where both slates of electors were actually Dy elected by the people there for in the 60s Hawaii and South Carolina.

These other historical examp that people go to from multiple states of electors are not at all comparable. Both of these things happened prior to 2016. There are no examples in US history. or if you want to give me one since you know so much History part of 2016, give it to me.

Is there any other examples in US history where the president is telling the vice president to unilaterally not certify the vote. Has that ever happened before? That's a totally separate question. What happened on January 6th. It doesn't matter if it's the first time that it ever happened, even if it's the first time or the 10th time, it's still not a CER Insurrection A cant.

Insurrection is when you use violence and force in order to seize control of power outside of the legal process. so a C has to have so if so, there's no. So if there's no violence, it can't be a coup. Wasn't there violence? I Saw violence.

You need need violence in order to be the coup. The Am: Violence January 6 The most amount of violence to the January 6 protesters. Not from them. Again, not a single protester with out a gun let alone used the gun.

That is a extremely weird how many officers were? How many officers were injured? 140 is is that enough violence for you? Well, here's a good question. uh about who like staging a coup and emergent phenomenon and if a crowd becomes violent and or if someone directs the crowd to become violent. uh, this is actually the next question on my list. Do you guys think that Trump was responsible for this thing? And before you answer I want to play a couple of Clips We have clip one and two.

These are from Trump's speeches on the day. Uh, I Think the first clip is uh, before the violence kicked off. Maybe we can play that first. I Know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol Building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.

We can't play into the hands of these people. We have to have peace. So go home. We love you.

You're very special. You've seen what happens. You see the way others are treated that are so bad and so evil. I Know how you feel, but go home and go home in peace.

That second clip was from after the violence had had be become and so he was kind of doing damage control I think at that point I Just don't understand all the insanely arbitrary caps that we're trying to create to try to say that it wasn't a coup. Well, there was violence, but there wasn't enough. There was a subversion of the democratic process, but it didn't end up working like if the plan would have gone as Donald Trump wanted it to have gone which is Vice President Pence unilaterally tossing out the Electoral College vote and if Donald Trump would have retained power pass when he was supposed to lose it. what is that? If not a coup, what would you call that? No one ordered those people the few hundred that actually fought police to do that.

That's great. What would TR char No One said Trump's been charged with Insurrection or inciting a riot Jack Smith espicially did, but we can't vote for him because they would you call it if Pence would have unilaterally thrown out the vote and and Trump would have held on to power for some weeks was calling for a 10day senate investigation. That's why we were there. That's great.

What would have happened if Pence would have thrown out the vote? No, that's a hypothetical. Trump wanted a 10day investigation wanted peny throw out what would happened? What would you have called were pushing for that? Yeah, what would we have called that can I get a name for that if you don't want to call it a coup or an Insurrection what would you call that? Well I'd call it taking Trump off the ballot and saying he we can't vote for him I know you won't answer because you probably know he's guilty. That's fine. What about Glen Glenn What would you call it if the President was able to entrench his power by asking his vice president to throw out the vote unilaterally, which is what he was trying to do.

Do you want to deny the facts? Do you want to deny that it's a coup? What part a coup? I You're lucky. Real. C Shows the weakness of the argument, but if that had happened, my guess is it would have ended up in the Supreme Court The Supreme Court would have made the decision about whether Mike Pence exercis his proper Authority as vice president and then Donald Trump if he had run out of options, would have left the White House on January 20th without any need for military force or police force exactly how he did and I would have called that the exhaustion of the legal remedies available to the president in the event that he and therefore it would have been just the way t